tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post8374470727278461663..comments2024-03-16T12:45:12.251-04:00Comments on Raised By Wolves: Blog Remix: Gaiting Away from OmelasHeather Houlahanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-84488746537761836812009-12-10T22:07:00.067-05:002009-12-10T22:07:00.067-05:00@Rob -- Link?
It was in one of Patrick's blog...@Rob -- Link?<br /><br />It was in one of Patrick's blog postings (where else?)FrogDogzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509157874145070350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-55378192219272609002009-11-26T22:17:00.234-05:002009-11-26T22:17:00.234-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-18921960838109681882009-11-25T21:40:03.844-05:002009-11-25T21:40:03.844-05:00It is good that political philosophers aren't ...<i>It is good that political philosophers aren't in charge of designing bridges or refineries. It's also good that engineers usually have limited means to try to make people and animals "make sense" -- because the fact is, much of the time, they just aren't going to. Systems for forcing them to do so are called totalitarian regimes, and invariably spiral into murder and madness.</i><br /><br />Meh. My political philosophy is about letting people figure out on their own what works and what doesn't, i.e. people should be treated as grownups. Life is a discovery process, and trying to force things into preconceived notions rarely works, especially when (as one of my favorite econbloggers, Lynne Kiesling, puts it) what we're up against is a knowledge problem. The devil is in the details.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18015219452269186971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-28490180695893581162009-11-25T19:44:47.676-05:002009-11-25T19:44:47.676-05:00Actually Rob, I checked your profile and got my an...Actually Rob, I checked your profile and got my answer <i>after</i> I asked the near-rhetorical question.<br /><br />Because of the nature of the economic base here, I have a fair number of engineers as dog-training clients. I've had to learn how engineers tend to think so we can communicate and I can help them with their dogs. This has been a real education for me.<br /><br />One thing about engineers -- and this is not a good thing or bad thing, it just is what it is -- is that they expect problems to be soluble, and are stubborn about regarding a situation as a paradox, mystery, or dead-end.<br /><br />I was educated as a political philosopher. It's an entirely different way of looking at problems and solutions. (That said, I may not have been a great fit in academia partly because of a manual/mechanical/practical streak that finds an outlet here on the farm.)<br /><br />A political philospher is fascinated with Omelas or the Heinz dilemma or the <i>Kobayashi Maru</i>* for what the process of thinking and debating about it reveals of human nature and institutions.<br /><br />An engineer gets pissed off and frustrated and looks for a way out of the dilemma, and ends up relegating LeGuin or Piaget to the nether world in frustration.<br /><br />It is good that political philosophers aren't in charge of designing bridges or refineries. It's also good that engineers usually have limited means to try to make people and animals "make sense" -- because the fact is, much of the time, they just aren't going to. Systems for forcing them to do so are called totalitarian regimes, and invariably spiral into murder and madness.<br /><br />*Yeah, I'm a geek. Wanna make something of it?Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-76048444433329429422009-11-25T11:40:13.435-05:002009-11-25T11:40:13.435-05:00@Heather -- You are an engineer, aren't you Ro...@Heather -- <i>You are an engineer, aren't you Rob?</i><br /><br />Wow, somebody finally read my profile! Hah! :-)<br /><br />@FrodDogz -- <i>In the case of the AKC, recent reports have led many of us to believe that the large scale, commercial puppy trade is the PRIMARY source of their income.</i><br /><br />Link?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18015219452269186971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-41676768273557375452009-11-25T11:00:31.214-05:002009-11-25T11:00:31.214-05:00As for the AKC -- and UKC -- it's impossible t...<i>As for the AKC -- and UKC -- it's impossible to say exactly how much of their revenue is puppy-mill proceeds. But it is safe to say that the glittery world of silver cups and handlers in monkey suits and sequins could not exist as it does without those revenues.</i><br /><br />In the case of the AKC, recent reports have led many of us to believe that the large scale, commercial puppy trade is the PRIMARY source of their income.<br /><br />This would mean that, rather than shows existing because of that income, it's more that they exist as a sort of gloss - a public relations face on what really fuels the AKC machine.<br /><br />What is frustrating is that I know of a great many breeders who are deeply disturbed by this facet of the AKC, and the AKC's increasingly concerted efforts to increase their segment of the commercial mill dog sales. However, years and years of "don't buy a dog from a breeder who doesn't show" propaganda has left breeders feeling that they're stuck in a corner.<br /><br />I don't particularly like showing, even here in Canada where the kennel club is vehemently ANTI commercial sales, but even I feel that I somehow 'have to', to be able to be considered a 'legitimate' (ie; non backyard, no puppy mill) breeder.FrogDogzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509157874145070350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-83254117978092462862009-11-25T09:44:03.213-05:002009-11-25T09:44:03.213-05:00You are an engineer, aren't you Rob?You are an engineer, aren't you Rob?Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-72310839683178293622009-11-25T02:12:03.375-05:002009-11-25T02:12:03.375-05:00It will never go away. You're doomed. You'...<i>It will never go away. You're doomed. You're trying to work your way out of it -- like kids presented with the Heinz dilemma. There is no way out, not even walking away.</i><br /><br />Mebbe. My own options are<br /><br />1) this is a childish fantasy (i.e. we take the notion that all the happiness above rests on the misery below, which is magical nonsense), in which case, fugoff, Ursula K. Le Guin.<br />2) the child is only in its miserable condition because of the superstitious beliefs of the Omelasans, in which case fug the lot of them.<br /><br />I honestly don't see how this is an insuperable problem. (Besides, how hard would it be to take on a buncha nekked guys humpin' alla time?)<br /><br />I have similar criticisms of the Heinz dilemma (which I had never heard of prior to your mentioning it, but that was an interesting conundrum, thankee very much).Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18015219452269186971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-69067437764898492382009-11-24T21:08:16.835-05:002009-11-24T21:08:16.835-05:00Ah Rob, Omelas has gotten under your skin now.
It...Ah Rob, Omelas has gotten under your skin now.<br /><br />It will never go away. You're doomed. You're trying to work your way out of it -- like kids presented with the Heinz dilemma. There is no way out, not even walking away. <br /><br />It's been fifteen years or so since I first encountered this allegory, and it will never stop needling me. It's as present to me as John Rawls' Original Position -- with the Veil of Ignorance -- in the formulation of Justice as Fairness -- but far more emotionally intrusive.<br /><br />As for the AKC -- and UKC -- it's impossible to say exactly how much of their revenue is puppy-mill proceeds. But it is safe to say that the glittery world of silver cups and handlers in monkey suits and sequins could not exist as it does without those revenues.<br /><br />I think it's also likely that, unlike Omelas, the tortured and degraded scapegoats outnumber the beneficiaries.<br /><br />Of course, the show <i>dogs</i> are not the beneficiaries of the sacrifice's suffering.<br /><br />If there is an Omelas for dogs, with a Festival of Summer and all, I don't think it involves trotting in circles while strung up.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-52726135808047570832009-11-24T16:34:47.270-05:002009-11-24T16:34:47.270-05:00Having thought about it some -- while realizing th...Having thought about it some -- while realizing this is an allegory --<br /><br />1) Couldn't those who abandon Omelas just go and kidnap the boy? What's their moral culpability here? They recognize a bad situation but do nothing about it.<br /><br />2) The moral point raised above seems to me to stem out of an obligation to enforce the moral law; each person owns himself, and no man has a right to enslave another. It's the same force that impels Huck Finn to free Nigger Jim despite knowing that he'll <a href="http://www.online-literature.com/view.php/huckleberry_finn/31?term=go%20to%20hell" rel="nofollow">"GO to hell"</a>. And in LeGuin's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_From_Omelas" rel="nofollow">rear-view-mirror-inspired story</a>, there's a bright line; she never gives us any reason to think the child is anything beyond a scapegoat.<br /><br />But in the case of the AKC, it's not clear to me how much of their operations budget stems from these sorts of shenanigans. Clearly the fact that they keep pressing this matter into increasingly obscure channels is not a good sign.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18015219452269186971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-84822224486783680582009-11-23T15:31:41.209-05:002009-11-23T15:31:41.209-05:00Who to hate more, the AKC, who profits from puppy ...Who to hate more, the AKC, who profits from puppy mills? Or the HSUS, who are willing to take money from Michael Vick and his agent in order to rehabilitate his image?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18015219452269186971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-86562222622314678632009-11-23T15:16:24.837-05:002009-11-23T15:16:24.837-05:00That has long and long been a favorite story of mi...That has long and long been a favorite story of mine.<br /><br />I really would like to teach that story in one of my lit classes, but my school objects to the words "naked" and "genitals"...yet not to the content. <br /><br />Hm.maybabyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03614214716356960711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-55107040665833517632009-11-23T09:48:16.534-05:002009-11-23T09:48:16.534-05:00Please - send this to the AKC, and to all their fa...Please - send this to the AKC, and to all their fanciers who refuse to admit that AKC is using their entry fees to pay court to the puppy mill industry.FrogDogzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509157874145070350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-86883434659751508472009-11-22T21:16:14.947-05:002009-11-22T21:16:14.947-05:00One of my favorite short stories.One of my favorite short stories.Retrievermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15780519136583108632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-8418597712119242002009-11-22T15:03:14.192-05:002009-11-22T15:03:14.192-05:00Too apt.
"They all know it is there, all th...Too apt. <br /><br />"They all know it is there, all the people of Omelas."<br /><br />Love the third pic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com