tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post7020534117608484222..comments2024-03-16T12:45:12.251-04:00Comments on Raised By Wolves: Jenna's BrainHeather Houlahanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-14038712318416926012011-03-23T01:57:59.988-04:002011-03-23T01:57:59.988-04:00See, Heather, this is what I'm thinking about ...See, Heather, this is what I'm thinking about for Barky, er, Maddy. Something to tap her shoulder to get her to remember that the whole terrified barking process doesn't need to go on indefinitely.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18015219452269186971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-66757806988774927562009-04-14T20:24:00.000-04:002009-04-14T20:24:00.000-04:00Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post. I a...Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post. I adopted my APBT, Violet, a year ago, when she was 10months old. Her background, what little I know of it, was similar to Spike's. And like Spike, she adores other dogs (not so much new places) and is fearful of people. When I first brought her home, she was so terrified of me I couldn't she would urinate and deficate on herself if I came too near. She never fear bit or displayed any aggression, but her chronic terror was horrible. I persisted, carrying all 50 pounds of her to obedience classes, hoisting her into my SUV to take her out into the world, even to the drugstore to fill a prescription. I participated in uber nerdy dog socialization nights, and take her to grad school with me at night.<br /><br />I literally dragged her everywhere until she started to come out of her shell. Now she is a shining example of the bully breed: loyal, smart, goofy, and deeply sweet. But! Only around people she knows well. Her progress has plataued.<br /><br />Being an APBT, she's not much of a barker, but I suspect she has the "fear loop" thing going on, and I want to interrupt it. For example, friends come over for dinner, and she cowers in her crate all night--afraid of the fact that she's afraid. I'm hoping this collar will let me "catch" her at the moment she starts to freak, when her ears and tail go down, her eyes get round, and she starts to slink away.Chelseanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-38729702101898973312009-03-24T13:03:00.000-04:002009-03-24T13:03:00.000-04:00Hi Heather,I just wanted to mention that the aggre...Hi Heather,<BR/><BR/>I just wanted to mention that the aggressively submissive behavior you described is used by wolves all the time, in a variety of situations. One way I have seen it used is to control other animals who are higher ranking but doing something the lower wolf detests (for what ever reason). It can be a way to "get your way" while still maintaining pack order. It can also be testing as you said.<BR/><BR/>I am going to try the pager mode on a "brain damaged" BC mix I have who always barks at my husband. I hope it works.<BR/><BR/>Terry Jenkins<BR/>happy_deer_grass@yahoo.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-33671000490799833222009-03-19T08:09:00.000-04:002009-03-19T08:09:00.000-04:00With the Dogtra models, one simply turns the stim ...With the Dogtra models, one simply turns the stim dial to zero, and even if you accidentally squeeze the button, nothing happens.<BR/><BR/>If you really don't trust yourself, you could pull the knob off and glue the thing at zero.<BR/><BR/>I want to stress again that this interrupt/redirect tool and technique is NOT for "barkers."<BR/><BR/>It is for dogs who are misbehaving socially, particularly dogs who are experimenting with fearful behavior and certain kinds of low-level status testing or aggressive testing. It just so happens that in two cases I mentioned, the fearfulness was manifested with barking jags.<BR/><BR/>You can sit there and buzz an industrial barker who has gotten rolling until the batteries cry uncle, and that dog will continue industrial barking and show no signs that he notices the buzzing.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-66798188213095505002009-03-18T10:43:00.000-04:002009-03-18T10:43:00.000-04:00hmm great post. I train deaf dogs with vibe collar...hmm great post. I train deaf dogs with vibe collars. Inside it's easy to distract a deaf dog by tossing a stuffed toy or tapping the floor. Once outside on a long lead it's close to impossible to reach them without a vibe collar. I really do wish that someone would make one so the user doesn't hit the STIM button at the wrong time. These aren't cheap but a few come with a lifetime warranty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-39774577033790129582009-03-18T09:17:00.000-04:002009-03-18T09:17:00.000-04:00My dog was going hard-of-hearing, so I used the bu...My dog was going hard-of-hearing, so I used the buzzer for a different function: no matter where he was, as long as he was within eyesight of us, when he felt the buzz he would turn and RUN to us as a "Come" alternative. It was actually very easy to teach with him already having a good recall, plus I had the low stim if he didn't obey the first time.<BR/><BR/>I admit to not having much skill with the e-collars, but that is what I used mine for...it's put away now since my dog was PTS and I'm waiting for a chance to go work with a pro to learn how to use it properly. But in regards to the buzzer, I saw more potential for a command alternative than I did a corrective action and it worked well. I still prefer traditional training collars for any corrections for misbehavior, but hey if the shoe fits you, wear it! (And plus I've never had a problem barker to work with, so I admit inexperience with that.)Viateciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523551407472141202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-75335496733451893912009-03-17T17:32:00.000-04:002009-03-17T17:32:00.000-04:00Heather-this was a great post. My lab mix Kasey is...Heather-this was a great post. My lab mix Kasey isn't a barker general, neither out in the back yard or inside at the window, even when he's riled up with someone at the door, he doesn't usually bark. <BR/><BR/>BUT<BR/><BR/>When we go to a social place like PetSmart or the Doggie Gym and he's on leash and either the other dogs aren't or they are but he isn't supposed to be greeting them. Then it's BARK non stop, with what I take to be stressed body language. I've tried diverting him with the "look at me" and treat, but obviously when he's stressed he's could care less about food. Running him around for a while seems to work. But do you think the vibrating collar would be for this kind of situation?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-5796172412883455812009-03-17T17:24:00.000-04:002009-03-17T17:24:00.000-04:00I wish you were close enough that I could get you ...I wish you were close enough that I could get you to evaluate Mal for me. CU has helped but not entirely eliminated his barkign ("HI! HI! HI! OMG I'M A COLLIE AND THIS WORLD IS SO MADE OF AWESOME! HEY! LISTEN TO ME! AREN'T I COOL?") but I wonder if this might do the trick. Citronella collar worked somewhat but made ME wheezy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-80477167591936071222009-03-17T16:54:00.000-04:002009-03-17T16:54:00.000-04:00Being one of those people who is constantly mispla...Being one of those people who is constantly misplacing my keys, cell phone, IPod, pager - what chance do I have finding the remote to the collar when my beloved but highly reactive Cattle Dog goes off at the front door? Is it possible to use this idea with something that is not hanging around the dog's neck? I do not want to use a "shake can" as my other, well behaved, ACD is very noise sensitive. Is there a collar that comes with more than one remote? (Using the theory that I couldn't possibly lose ALL of them?).<BR/><BR/>Anne GoldsmithAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-80758824411342305962009-03-17T13:00:00.000-04:002009-03-17T13:00:00.000-04:00Your description of the aggressive groveling was s...Your description of the aggressive groveling was spot on. I knew it wasn't true submission and I've often observed it in dogs with the most innate drive toward dominance. But it wasn't until I read your description that it really clicked to me as "testing" behavior. Thank you!<BR/><BR/>I know (although not well) Laura and Douglas--but I'm east coast and have only seen them at a few events.<BR/><BR/>Christine<BR/>blackthornkennel.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-78599153340087543672009-03-17T09:31:00.000-04:002009-03-17T09:31:00.000-04:00I used a traditional bark collar many years ago on...I used a traditional bark collar many years ago on a Setter I had briefly. We rented then, had neighbors on all sides, and it was important to keep the dogs relatively quiet. I don't know if there was some interference or what but it appeared to me the thing would go off sometimes when the dog was quiet. That was problem 1. Problem 2 was that it wasn't sensitive to the constant, loud (IMO) whining the dog would do so I still had a noisy dog.<BR/>I am so happy to learn about this new "pager" setting! Not that it would have applied to the Setter, but I would love to try it on a dog I have right now who seems to be a social ne'er-do-well. Thanks for posting about it.YesBiscuit!https://www.blogger.com/profile/13827466504671715047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-28515039217760435992009-03-17T01:29:00.000-04:002009-03-17T01:29:00.000-04:00Susan --Your dog might be a better candidate for a...Susan --<BR/><BR/>Your dog might be a better candidate for a conventional bark-triggered collar.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that IF the buzzer collar (or a conventional e-collar) quieted him down when you were leaving, he'd just transfer his tantrum to just after you drive out of range or earshot. The kong story certainly suggest that strong possibility. You might see if you could borrow one, rather than take a $200 gamble.<BR/><BR/>Also, this particular kind of hysteria is different from the social foolishness I've successfully used the buzzer collar for. He may go too far over the top to respond, too quickly.<BR/><BR/>I prefer the electronic stimulation to the citronella/noxious fumes bark collars -- because, believe it or not, they are more humane. The shock is gone as soon as the bark is -- very communicative, provides good contrast -- but the spray stink lingers long after the dog stops yapping. And citronella on the eyes and mucus membranes is painful.<BR/><BR/>Fitting a bark collar can be tricky with a very hairy dog, and sometimes you have to clip a little bit (don't shave bare!) to make contact.<BR/><BR/>I like the Dogtra YS series collars, as they are easy to adjust the levels, and I've not known one to fire "unjustly."<BR/><BR/>In the case of your dog, you are just looking to correct the barking itself when you leave. IME, stop the barking jag, you most often stop the emotion that accompanies it.<BR/><BR/>Use it at home first, and be ready to mess with the levels until you get it right.<BR/><BR/>If it makes you feel any better, the "Timmy down the well, rusty ice pick jabbed in my ear" kind of bark is the #1 complaint I hear from collie owners. It apparently IS self-rewarding to these guys, whatever the cause of the shriek. What I often see is dogs who are barking a fairly normal amount, at normal volumes, for normal reasons -- but the pitch is so kidney-liquifying, the owners (and neighbors) cannot take it.<BR/><BR/>My German shepherd hits the same pitch, and it drives me to the Mountains of Madness.<BR/><BR/>And uber-manly Moe has a squeal he uses when he's especially happy about greeting someone that can turn skull bone into powder.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-23792945340728842692009-03-17T00:59:00.000-04:002009-03-17T00:59:00.000-04:00The only real issue we have had with our almost si...The only real issue we have had with our almost six year old rough collie that I am at a loss as to how to address is barking fits (high-pitched Timmy's fallen down the well barks that carry for a couple of blocks) either when we both leave the house, or either of leave him in the car when we've gone somewhere. <BR/><BR/>He's fine once we're out of sight and isn't destructive,so my impression is that it's not separation anxiety.<BR/><BR/>We've joked that he does it because he doesn't want the "herd" to be separated, but still, even if that's true... <BR/><BR/>I believe that this may be at least partly the result of the positive training advice I got when he was a puppy to "ignore the behavior you don't want" and so now, here we are. More likely, from what CM the DW says, doing nothing meant the behavior was approved.<BR/><BR/>How in the heck do you reward a dog for not doing something when you're physically not there? <BR/><BR/>We tried the treat-filled Kong to distract him before we left and that worked. Once. The second time it triggered him on sight. He's not stupid.<BR/><BR/>Do you think this collar would work? He certainly meets the first criteria you mention.<BR/><BR/>I've tried everything I can think of to break the jag, but he just flips into another space where I can't reach him. I can see it in his eyes.<BR/><BR/>Needless to say, this isn't fun for him and I'd love for him to be able to just stay relaxed when we leave him. As I say, he's ok once we're gone. It's the leaving that seems to be the trigger, so matter how calm and matter of fact we are.<BR/><BR/>I've recently put a bed on the floor of the car, I get him in a calm state before we leave and in a down stay on leash behind the seats (Eurovan camper) to try to head off the jag, but since what he wants is to see out the window, all this seems to only be increasing the anxiety, at least for now.<BR/><BR/>I think stopping it before it stops is the solution and maybe this collar is the way to do that. What do you think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-63866402895136938942009-03-16T22:07:00.000-04:002009-03-16T22:07:00.000-04:00Wow, Heather, this is great news. Douglas helped m...Wow, Heather, this is great news. Douglas helped me with Kitchi's recall as we border a sheep ranch that shoots dogs and she loved to run, run, run. He did mention that it could help Max's barking but I had forgotten. Max thinks I cannot do anything without his help and barks incessantly when I leave him in the barn or he is worried about me. He also barks at strangers, chasing birds and when he is very happy and I don't want to interfere with that. I will contact Douglas for the fine points but this will be wonderful since I already have the Dogtra 200 but did not know about the "page"<BR/><BR/>Ann CAssidy<BR/>Bodega, CAUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12298515250935711609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-86448635564036297932009-03-16T14:51:00.000-04:002009-03-16T14:51:00.000-04:00Hi Shannon --I've used a bark collar for the same ...Hi Shannon --<BR/><BR/>I've used a bark collar for the same sort of thing when the situation warrants it. What I like about the buzzer collar with a hand-held remote is that it is good for many kinds of social testing and misbehavior, and it does not fire off for normal or sanctioned barking.<BR/><BR/>For example, with Spike, I don't want to shut him up -- I want to shortstop his experiments with acting fearful.<BR/><BR/>I do like to give some updates on foster dogs I have here, but I sometimes withhold a lot of detail. Keep in mind that these dogs are meant to go on to new identities with new families. I don't want something I say about one of them on the interwebz to follow him for the rest of his new life.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5810033429461791744.post-21365117569277078672009-03-16T14:21:00.000-04:002009-03-16T14:21:00.000-04:00Wow - that's a pretty amazing story about a pretty...Wow - that's a pretty amazing story about a pretty useful tool. Our dog Guinness was a lot like Jenna - the behaviorist we consulted described exactly the same loop going on in his brain..."I'm barking, so there must be something to be afraid of, so I'll bark at it!"<BR/><BR/>She recommended a citronella bark collar, and it worked in the same way I think the buzzer would have worked. It interrupted the behavior before it could become a loop, creating, as you say "space for something else". It's good food for training thought. Fortunately, our current puppy isn't nearly so reactive.<BR/><BR/>I'm really enjoying your blog, and look forward to more stories of Spike the Free Range Puppy.Shannon Larkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15551622255822820849noreply@blogger.com